Help in configuring Altecs

[srkredliner]

Hello all,

I've been lurking for a bit here, and trying my best to do research before asking questions. If I have missed a post with good information answering any of my questions, please point me to the appropriate thread and I'll try to catch up.

Anyhow, I'm acquiring 3 Altec 210 cabs (A4), and 2 A7 cabs. One of the 210 cabs has wings. The cabinets have no speaker cones, and will need some refurbishing. They also have no horns or compression drivers with them.

My goal is to use these speakers in a small warehouse-like space to play electronic music. Ideally, the sound will be full, and dynamic, but definitely not deafening. I do want the ability to turn it up fairly loudly, though. Unfortunately I'm not sure of the room's dimensions yet, but it won't be a massive room. I probably don't expect more than 150 or 200 people to fit in the space.

So, I have a few questions.

First, is it possible to use one of the 210 cabinets as a sub-woofer? Some of the research I've done shows that these perform poorly at very low frequencies.

Second, what sort of 15" drivers should I be putting in the cabs, that will not break the bank? I don't need the top of the line speakers, as they aren't being used in a HI-FI setting.

Third, in finding a complimentary compression driver and horn setup, what again could be reasonably priced, but deliver decent performance? Here, too, I'm not going for HI-FI output, but hope for something reasonable.

Lastly, assuming I purchased a simple Behringer active x-over, at what frequency should I be aiming to split at? 500 cycles? 800 cycles? Also, what sort of power amplification will I require? I have a QSC USA 900, presently.

I appreciate all of your feedback. If there is anything else I can input to help answer these questions, let me know.

_S

[LICORNE]

I will answer this. Speaker cabinets are designed according to speaker specifications and not the other way around.

I and probably the others won't be able to help you on this one.

For the woofers you have to go with Altec 515.

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[srkredliner]

Convergence,

I don't understand your response. It would have been more helpful if you could let me know why you think that I am trying to do is wrong - it seems pretty reasonable to use these to do what I'm doing - they were designed to produce a lot of sound for many people in large spaces. I'm asking what would be good speaker cones to use, and also what compression drivers and horns would compliment those woofers to do what I'm doing.

I would really appreciate it if you could elaborate a little more - I didn't understand your response.

Thanks

_S

[LICORNE]

A speaker has parameters called THIELE SMALL.
These parameters are what the speaker is capable of in free air. Altec or Lansing came up with
a speaker that had the optimum parameters. Then
a cabinet was designed around these speaker parameters.Then they measured different enclosure size that would still meet these parameters.
Then the cabinets were clasified into 4 groups.
Infine baffle,Ducted Port Bass Reflex,regular port bass reflex and Recommended Optimum size.
The tuning of these determines the port size which determines the box size also.

In the case of the 210 cabinet the speaker would be an Altec 515G.

As for Horn and Driver you have two choices.
Altec or JBL. Altec would be the 1505-B or 1005-B for the horns and 399 driver from Great Plains Audio.
Or the Mantaray Horn MR-94 or MR-945 with GPA
399 driver.

Or JBL 2360-B Horn with 2446-H Driver .



Cross over at 500 HZ.

For subs JBL 4642A double.


The speakers have been voiced for these cabinets.

So that a 515-G can fit into a A-7 cabinet or a 817 816 815. Called front loaded Horn.

So some speakers are radiators others are Bass Horn such as the 515-G.

I hope this makes it clearer.

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[bowtie427ss]

Of course what hasn't been said is that the overall voicing of the Altec systems in general is probably less than desireable for "electronic" music................. just my opinion of course.

Those altec horn systems were primarily designed to reproduce human voice with particular emphasis on speech intelligebility.

They're also well suited for sound reinforcement of live musical performances.

But in my opinion the reproduction of electronic music is one area where the big altec horns might be less than ideal.

150-200 isn't a large crowd so just one pair of 210's might be EQ'd to provide enough of the bottom octave to be adequate. In their ideal operating range the 210's will provide good coverage for 200-400 to moderate levels.

There are several woofers (non altec) that will "work" in the 210/211 cabinets, but as CONVERGENCE has mentioned above, the 515 is the "best" woofer for those boxes.

The challenge is going to be in finding a high frequency solution ideally suited to electronic music............ i'll leave it up to the rest of the board to make suggestions.

[LICORNE]

You have instrument speakers which are producers.

The trend today is to minimize these speakers on
stage.

All instruments and vocals are piped in through the main speakers. In this case it would be your Altec A-4.

Wou might want to look at some processors for your electronic sound.

Is it a Key Board that you will be using??

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[valhallax]

ive a set of a7's with 8 cell large format horns driven by the 288-8k driver. the woofer is a gpa 515 g. every so often i put on some trance or electronica music.. the sound is superb. very detailed very deep. i can only imagine 210's would be even better, a better bass response, and much fuller. my system in eq'd tuned with a real time analyzer to flatten out the curve, and then the frequencies below 40 hz are attenuated 12 db..hehehe. i dont even play my subs much anymore

[bigjunglejim]

You say the boxes came without speaker cones? Are they missing the complete speaker or only the cones? The cones are the part that pumps the air and usually made of some kind of paper.

You didn't say if you wanted to buy new of vintage speakers, horns and horn drivers.

210 cabs are great. Here's a link for you to explore. http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/.../altec-cat.htm I think you will find most of your answers there. Altec had some of the best people in audio. I'd go with speakers as suggested in their catalogs unless I wanted new speakers. If I wanted new, I'd talk with Bill at Great Planes Audio (Bill was an engineer at Altec for 15 years before they closed up). Here's a link; http://www.greatplainsaudio.com/

There's a lot of BS out there about electronic and/or digital music. Remember, people in business want you to buy their products so they come up with there own bells and whistles to inspire you to buy their new equipment. Just because it's new doesn't make it better. In truth, old Altec can blow away almost everything on the market. There's a reason why Altec sold so well. That reason still exists. Altec equipment sounds great.

If you want a warehouse size building to have the same lows and volume levels that some of the boom boxes on wheels have, you're going to need some very deep pockets.

[bigjunglejim]

I thought I might share with you a some pictures of my main system for live sound. After a gig and the crowd was gone, I played some CD's. I had hotel employees coming out of the wood work to check it out. Trust me, it was loud and CLEAN. Your 210's will go lower than my 817's. I'd try the 210's loaded with 515-B's if I could get them. They are becoming expensive. Bill may sell you new 515's for less than you can buy 515-B's (and have them reconed by Bill) My best recomendation, call Bill at GPA. I think you will find the 210's and A-7 cabinets will be some of the least costly items of your system. But, once they are set up right, I think you will be a very happy camper.

[LICORNE]

As for your questions

Is it possible to use a 210 as a sub :the answer is no.

The woofer best suited for the 210 is the 515G.
It's still manufactured by Bill at Great Plains Audio. Around 300$ each.

As for Hi Freq Driver . There isn't much compromise. If you go with a clone you might save a few dollars.That's all . These company's are not stupid and they know your replacing an Altec or JBL component.

The Behringer Active XO is an excellent choice.

You will need 2 amps QSC or Behringer if you want to pay less.

The HF amp must be resonable in power not to damage your Drivers. The rule of thumb is 1/1/2 the RMS power of the driver.

My preferred cross over point is 500 HZ. With the Behringer you can adjust this to your taste.

Here is what it looks like with out the wings.
With wings the Freq goes down to 45 HZ.





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